Marvel Vs. Dc

[shabazz]

I have a lot of opinions about Marvel and DC, as I'm sure others do, this is a perfect thread to express said feelings. First I want to know everyone else's opinion before I go about defending DC.

[Odin Reeves]

Marvel Vs DC #1

Marvel Vs DC #2

Marvel Vs DC #3

Marvel Vs DC #4

[Maverik]

It's all a matter of preference. DC is all about being larger than life and pitting hero's shaped in the image of gods against villains of astronomical power. Marvel is more about your average people finding themselves with unnatural abilities, and fighting powerful, yet often human, villains. As for Marvel having shallow characters... Name one and you'll find that they are just as robust as any DC character. I mean... Don't even get Kurtsatron started on Dr. Doom...

[shabazz]

Umm I think you have it completely turned around. I think it's Marvel with the godly heroes and astronomical power. (I.E. Onslaught)

And DC having average people finding themselves with unnatural abilities. Hell, some of the heroes don't even have powers. (I.E. Batman, The Question, Mr. Terrific) And some of the villains don't even compare to some of the crazy guys marvel has dished out.

Come on I mean can you even compare Two Face to let's say Sandman!?

[Maverik]

I'll agree that Batman is an exception to the rule. Which is why he's about the only DC character I'm fond of. But for the most part, DC is allot more out there. Especially in the sense of how well a character can be related to. Marvel has multitudes of very human characters who, outside of their super hero lives experience all the same sort of stuff we all do. Spiderman being the perfect example, as he started out as an awkward teenage boy who's life became even MORE awkward when he realized he could climb walls and had a strange fascination with white sticky substances.

Superman (yes this particular example fits my argument well, feel free to give a counter example), no matter how human they try to make him, still stands tall above everyone else. He still sails into space and looks down on earth and it's inhabitants as a protector, not as a member. He can't be stabbed or shot or hurt in any way, and because of this complete lack of anything truly mortal about him, he himself doesn't know how to be someone we can relate to.

I'd go into Marvel villains vs DC villains... But outside The Joker (my personal favorite of any franchise), I believe Kurtz is far more knowledgeable.

[shabazz]

Lol, it is funny. In my previous argument I stated that the only character that Marvel has actually spent time on was spiderman. And so far, that is the only example you can give me. And I still can't believe you think that DC overpowers Marvel when it comes to heroes and such. I'm going to compare some Marvel characters to some DC ones with the exclusion of Batman and Spiderman.

Let's take a look at Steel: John Henry Irons can at will change his body into stainless steel, which increases his strength and makes him virtually indestructible.

Now let's look at the Hulk: The Hulk possesses an incredible level of superhuman physical ability. His capacity for physical strength is potentially limitless due to the fact that the Hulk's strength increases proportionally with his level of great emotional stress, anger in particular. The Hulk uses his superhumanly strong leg muscles to leap great distances. The Hulk has been known to cover hundreds of miles in a single bound and once leaped almost into orbit around the Earth. The Hulk has shown a high resistance to physical damage nearly regardless of the cause, and has also shown resistance to extreme temperatures, poisons, and diseases in addition to regeneration of damaged or destroyed areas of tissue at an amazing rate.

The Hulk's body also has a gland that makes an "oxygenated per fluorocarbon emulsion", which creates pressure in the Hulk's lungs and effectively lets him breathe underwater and move quickly between varying depths without concerns about decompression or nitrogen narcosis.

Which one is a bit more overpowered? I'll let you be the judge of that. Not satisfied? Let's take a look at two Villains from each comic book dynasty. I'll choose two Major ones.

Let's start with Galactus:Galactus possesses cosmic power beyond most forms of measurement (The Power Cosmic). He can levitate; restructure molecules; convert matter into energy and vice-versa; project energy with enormous concussive force; teleport himself, others, and objects across space, dimensions, and time; erect virtually impenetrable fields; restore others from any injury, even total disintegration; and endow or enhance powers within others. Even his heralds, imbued with the smallest fraction of his power, can manipulate matter and energy far beyond human comprehension. Though he generally avoids physical conflict, Galactus can bolster his own strength beyond any known system of measure. Galactus is telepathic, able to scan the thoughts of virtually any known being.

To sustain his immense power, Galactus requires energies derived from a biosphere, a planet able to sustain living beings, though life does not actually have to be present. Though Galactus can extract and absorb this energy himself, he generally employs his immense Elemental Converter to perform the process, as it is far more efficient and avoids the expenditure required of him. Sometimes the planets on which he feeds are left barely habitable; other times he consumes all life and water, leaving it devastated and barren; most often the process reduces the planet to space rubble. When Galactus was newly formed, the energy of a medium-size Earth-like planet sustained him for over a century. Now he needs to feed about once a month; in addition, when preparing for a massive expenditure of energy, he may absorb planets more frequently to amplify his power stores. Conversely, when he does not feed within his allotted time, his energies will dwindle, and he will even begin to physically shrink as they drop dangerously low. His body totally converts the energies he absorbs for his life functions and activities without any waste products.

Though seemingly destroyed on several occasions, Galactus is always restored to full power eventually. In addition, despite being a physical being, Galactus can adopt a manifestation (M-Body) from the Dimension of Manifestations in order to commune with abstract beings, such as Death and Eternity.

Let's compare him to DarkSeid: * Darkseid's main power is the Omega Effect, a form of energy that he fires from his eyes. It is not only a relentless attack, but it is also capable of teleporting the target to any location Darkseid chooses and recall them later or erase the target from the universe and similarly reform them. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows it to travel in straight lines or bend, twist, or curve around corners. The Omega Effect can apparently pass through matter and energy. In the third part of the Hunter/Prey storyline, he claimed that no being had yet withstood the full force of the Omega Effect, but Doomsday nonetheless survived the attack. Both Superman and the Cyborg Superman have also withstood a blast from the Omega Beams, but with severe pain and damage as a result. Darkseid's third son Grayven uses a weaker version of the Omega Effect.
* Darkseid possesses superhuman strength, stamina, and durability that at least rival those possessed by Superman.
* Additionally, Darkseid possesses a regenerative healing factor as well as immortality, which are common among the more advanced beings of the Fourth World.
* Darkseid is also possesses incredible psionic abilities. He once mentally dominated nearly three billion Daxamites simultaneously. It should be noted that this happened after Darkseid had absorbed the energies from certain mystical artifacts, as well as from Legion of Super-Heroes enemies Mordru and the Time Trapper.
* Darkseid can transmute matter at the molecular level, as he demonstrated by turning the Daxamite warrior Ol-Vir into dust, and Slo-bo into a statue, and Secret from a spirit into a living girl. He is also able to dissipate and disperse the molecules of any object or organism, effectively erasing them from existence.
* In the Great Darkness Saga, Darkseid displayed some limited reality manipulation to defeat the Legion of Super Heroes.
* Darkseid has the ability to generate mental avatars, and is able to levitate himself and others telekinetically with ease.
* As a god-like being, Darkseid has several powers that surpass most other beings in the known universe. He can imbue humans with great power, as he did when he made an unnamed Earth woman over into the being known as Stayne, created as a rival for Takion.
* He can travel through time and between dimensions as easily as any New God.
* Darkseid also possesses a superhuman level intellect; he is a master planner and strategist.

Although the powers are fairly similar, you tell me which one is stronger, I think I rest my case in this situation...

[William Fletcher]

Beforehand I'd like to note I'm no comic book buff, I'm going on limited knowledge, but damn Shabazz, you're really taking this too fucking seriously.

Examples of heroes who are relatively human in their manner?

---> Fantastic Four (lousy movies but good example). You've got a bunch of scientists who end up in the worst place at THE worst time. Sure, whilst three of them get decent, nifty powers, one of them is so badly deformed as a result of it that in the early stages he's basicall an outcast. Tell me Thing isn't a good example of that.

----> Let's see...Captain America before he was killed (the ORIGINAL, I will note). No real 'super-powers' at all. Captain America was effectively the 'Batman' of Marvel, a normal human being so perfect in his physical design that he was superior to normal humans. That's all. No flying abilities, no super strength, no super speed, nothing like that.

Just the very limits of the human body, almost limitless stamina (figuratively speaking) and a big shiny shield. Captain America did the job, and he did it without super-powers.

----> The Punisher (though the term 'hero' is being REALLY loosely stretched here), had NO powers or anything to that effect. Just a very nice vintage rock t-shirt, a trenchcoat and a penchant for REALLY being a badass to people.

----> Daredevil. A guy who was blinded as a kid, discovered he had supremely heightened senses, effectively gave him sonar. So he was a blind guy, able to see...So, he's a normal guy then...Just happens to know a little kung-fu and wears skin-tight leather for whatever reason.


Shabazz, before you start preaching about how great DC is, think about your argument instead of looking at wikipedia or whatever.

[shabazz]

I'm not taking this seriously at all, I just wanted to make this thread to prevent the other to turning into a Marvel Vs. DC thread.

Second of all, I am thinking about my arguement, you've named 4 heroes if that's what you want to call them, and 2 of em' are poorly developed. My only thing with marvel is that it just keeps dishing out hero after hero with no serious development, and then makes a few movies and games to rake in cash.

And since when did this become a Marvel Vs. Shabazz arguement, focus your opinions toward DC not me.

[William Fletcher]

When you basically pull wikipedia in whats meant to be a 'casual' discussion, then it becomes a 'Marvel vs. Shabazz' argument. Or would you rather 'Marvel vs. Shabazz and Wikipedia'...? =/

As for their development, Fantastic Four have been around for decades. Captain America, decades. Punisher...Decades too....Uh, Daredevil? Yeah, he's been about a while as well. Yes, his storyline isn't the most prominent by any means, but the simple matter you started tossing was the LACK of human 'heroes'. I list them, so you then begin to trash the fact they're not the companies breadwinners.

Looney Tunes. How many cartoons was Bugs Bunny in compared to Marvin the Martian? Exactly.

Hanna Barbara. Had upteen dozens of cartoons. Scooby Doo is the one you see on lunchboxes, not the Hair Bear Bunch (such good memories there).

Marvel. Spiderman makes more money than the others? What do you think they're going to do?

DC (to complete my point). Superman and Batman. The MAIN heroes on the roster. The only two to have DECENT movies made about them (I saw the 'Steel' movie with Shaq. I'd rather gouge my eyes out than watch it again). Even at that, the only decent Batman movies period, were the very original, then the newest. Why? They got smart and went back to the root of their character. Now, I can pretty much say safely that DC is going to ride Batman up more and more as a result of it.

You want my opinions on DC? A decent franchise, but only a few heroes (in my opinion) worth mentioning. The rest are just...Eh, they WERE good once upon a time, but they've quickly lost their charm. Superman is the poster boy, and only because he's the big icon of 'Americas Freedom'...

Rebuttal? >.>

[shabazz]

For the record, I also pulled Marvel Universe....

But as for the rebuttal:

First of all, you shouldn't really use movies as your defense because out of all the countless Marvel Movies and Games that have been out there, only 3 of them have been any good. And they were all Spider-Man. Furthermore, you seem to get development and age mistaken. I could careless if these guys have been hour for centuries, it just makes it worse. To have decades worth of story with no prominent meaning. And even then Daredevil has to borrow Spiderman's left over Villains. (The Shocker was his first Super Villain)

Now on to the Punisher. He was once again Marvel taking one concept they made that people happened to like and then trying to cash in on it. He's basically a gun man anti hero (I.E Wolverine with guns)

Don't you see a pattern? Marvel makes super hero after super hero with extremely similar personalities. In essence all they do is give the same guy a new hair cut. Although I will admit that their are a few that you have named that are somewhat unique. (I.E. Captain America, who was an excellent example of character development. In essence he is the act of patriotism embodied into the perfect American. He did things Americans wanted to do but couldn't. An example of this is the cover of him socking Hitler in the jaw. But, now that they killed him off, I only wonder who is the new super hero they are going to make with his same concept.

[Leon Loire]

Where the hell is Tyler? Shouldn't he be in here defending Marvel?

Oh well, I'm sure he'll be showing up soon, with that Amazing Entrance the Triumvirate have perfected together...

First off, I'm not voting, since Superhero comics aren't my thing. If you want an argument with Star Wars however, then send me a hail. Otherwise, I'll let you folks argue over Batman's Awesome or how sexy Spiderman is.

Which, as a thought, the reason I can't really throw in my two cents is because my two favorite superheroes are Batman and Spiderman (yeah, I know, I'm a sheep) and since they're both on opposing sides here, I'll just hope that Bruce Wayne's amazingly, unrealistic wealth (*coughs at Shabazz's first argument*) is able to defeat the Amazing Spiderman's absolute pimpness.

Good luck folks, I'll leave this for you all to argue... at least until Kurtzatron rants about Dr. Doom again, then you'll have this thread dead.

(That seems to be a curse upon both of us...)

[Maverik]

While we're on the topic of 'churning out poorly developed heroes', allow me to remind you of a few things... Kid Flash? Wonder Girl? Aqualad? Just to name a few pointless spin offs who's lack of origionality didn't even extend to a new name and haircut. And what about all those other memorable characters like Atom, with the ability to shrink, Fire, with the ability to... Well... Create fire. And of course Ice, who strangely enough commands ice magic. Never before have I seen such creativity!

And characters with depth? Well I'm not the biggest DC guy (as has been noted) so I'll stick to Marvel here... Lets use those brought up already as an example.

Spiderman:
Easily the most relatable character ever created for young teens. Had issues, was socially akward, and the city that he saved time and time again didn't seem to accept him for the good guy he really was.

Captain America:
What every good soldier wanted to be. Patriotic, noble, and the picture of phisical perfection. But at a price, as the experiments done on him exposed him to unsheilded radiation, leaving him to live no longer than the end of the war. He was proud, and most of all, he was human. Every American wanted to shake his hand.

The Hulk:
Damn near indestructable yes. But so is Superman so we shall look past that point. Bruce Banner is a genius physicist who gets exposed to gamma rays and finds that he becomes something known only as The Hulk. Unlike any conventional super heroes of his time... The Hulk was a rampaging beast when angered, but had a child like innocence when calm. He wasn't out to do good for his country, or even do anything at all. He simply wanted to be who he was and be left alone. And for once, the villain became the American government, who decided to destroy or capture him at any cost. Bruce Banner, himself a seperate entity to The Hulk, has to struggle through the pain that having such a potentially destructive beast within himself brings, and is often forced to deal with the knowledge that he has destroyed the lives of the innocent in his provoked rage. He is extremely human, and very relateable.

And just because he deserves a spot here...

Iron Man:
Millionaire genius who served time in the Vietnam war. He was caught in a trap which punctured his heart, forcing him to stay with his captor who was effectively keeping him alive. He made weapons for him, all the while creating his armour and eventually escaping. He is a business man as Stark, and a hero as Iron Man. He has gone through many personal issues, even becoming alcoholic at one point when he finds out that S.H.E.I.L.D has bought out a controlling share of his companies stock so that he had to keep making weapons for them. He is arguably one of the best played out heroes to have been created to date.

[king]

I believe the words I'm looking for are, it's on the tip of my tongue, oh yes....

BITCH PLEASE!

Darkseid got thrown in to the very energy source of creation and basically sat there until he got out....Galacticus got beaten by a gun. Galacticus is also not a villian, but an abstract force in the universe that has been so since it's creation.....like the being's time and eternity are.

When someone want's to alter reality in the Marvel universe, you have to laboriously work on an arcane cube of power you fail to understand, or be a mutant who's powers have gone haywire with madness, or collect a gauntlet relic of great power, or take the thrown of the Citadel from the Supremem Guardian of the Omniverse (Captain Britian FTW)

In DC, your heroes are so super powerful, that superman Jr changed plots by simply punching the universes wall.

Marvel make have powerful villians, which makes sense considering half of those villians are facing teams of superheroes. Those heroes are never really that powerful. The current leaders of the x-men have laser vision, a limited psychic ability, and the ability to turn skin super hard.

OK, one recurring leader of the juctice league, the martian manhunter, could easily take both of them....and he isn't even superman....they guy who had an entire corss-over pretty much dedicated to taking his powers down a peg.

Your calling Daredevil and Punisher poorly developed? Do you know anythng about either of them....lets forget all the developement they've had with each other, cause they've met plenty. Daredevil has been just about everywhere, hell he has such far reaching complications that even the women he's shagged are now in the Avengers AND leading Hydra. He's had several bouts of depression, had to laucnh lawsuits to protect his secret identity, etc. Punisher has just as much as well constantly coming into contatc with the other super-hero's of marvel and testing thier convictions, and has now taken Captain America's mask and made himself a new costume....not develpoed, he could very well end up being the replacement for Steve Rogers the Iron Man is searching for!

I'm not going to discuss Dr. Doom....you've proven unworthy.

Oh, and don't talk about redundant character from someone defending DC...how many side kicks has batman gone through? Hell, how many ROBIN's has batman gone through?

All you've shown is that your a fan boy and lacking knowledge of those against your fandom. If you had made one arguement that either wasn't based on ignorance or didn't apply as equally to DC. As I said, anyone who argues one of these over the other clearly lacks knowledge of at least one of them.

And that's why I'm not voting, becuase they are both awesome.

also, DOOM!

[shabazz]

Whatever man I could go on and make arguments, but if your just going to call me a fan boy and call me ignorant, then there is no reason. There are too many Marvel fans here calling me wrong for me to even prove a single point.

[Pain Killer]

For a guy who said he wanted to hear opinions before he started defending DC, that sounds suspisciously like giving up.

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

Okay, okay.


Borg Cube Vs. Deathstar?

[Maverik]

I'd like to note that I'm in the same camp as Kurtz here. I haven't voted because I indeed LIKE some of DC. I just happen to know more about Marvel and feel that it deserves to be defended against such blatent attacks from, as Kurtz put it, an ignorant fanboy.

They both have faults and strong points. I have my preference yes. But that doesn't mean I think that DC is worse. Indeed, that would be stupendously ignorant of me, considering it all comes down to the specific writer and artist of each comic series, much less character, as to whether or not the comic is enjoyable.

On an unrelated note... Is Vader on the Death Star?

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

Both Emperor and Vader are on Death Star.


Also: Blaster rifles have clips for a reason. They shoot concentrated, intensely heated bursts of gas. They arn't energy weapons- so borg shields can't adapt

[Kyukaku]

I thought I posted my big rant earlier after johns post while I was at school, but i guess it didnt go past the crappy ass servers. Either way, I dont want to try and go through it all again, as there isn't too much for me to add that Mav and Kurtzatron didn't already go over.

And yeah, you keep saying that we're not making any points here, when we do and you just brush it off as nothing. Don't worry, feel free to admit your defeat. I got verbally raped in my first argument against Kurtzatron as well.

Modify: Oh, and I do like the DC universe. I just prefer the Marvel, especially now since all DCs writers blow.

[king]

I got verbally raped in my first argument against Kurtzatron as well.

I'm so tempted to add to this mental image being created....


Also, which Death Star? Episode 4 or 6?