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Post by Pain Killer on Dec 2, 2008 7:14:35 GMT 1
How many characters turned faculty members (and one officer) were just spur of the moment interests that didn't last? Was working as intended...
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Post by Shuya Katsumoto on Dec 2, 2008 13:01:05 GMT 1
If a reboot is going to be made I think I'm finally really going to be out. Fully. A reboot in my eyes would seriously be the destruction of everything I built with my characters. How little it may matter for and to all of you, I don't know, but to me I did develop my characters in a unique way and a reboot would just destroy all of it. I could never rp with my current characters and I wouldn't even want to have them be different than they currently are. That being said, if there was a reboot I would simply do the exact same things I did in the past. A reboot seems like a too drastic solution, mostly for the roleplayers that have been around here for a very long time. Therefore, reboot would allow me to not feel guilty about never being here again.
As for a new school with new directions and closing Hircine and Paragon, I feel it has the only few good qualities that a reboot would have, addded with little bad side effects. Yeah, I've been trying to get a lot of stuff to work with Shuya as co principal and yeah, most of my ideas were in my head, waiting for the right time. Now there would never be a right time, but I would still wholeheartedly go for the position of principal. Hell, I would finally discard Kokaku and make a new character, having both Shuya and Zack still around, esspecially with Shuya's history. I would lose nothing and see options to grow again, for everyone around here.
As far as conservation goes, yeah, it could most definitely work, but it would all depend on every single member's activity with recent events. If it is shown that there is enough initiative from both the old grunts as the new enthusiastic rpers , I would definitely see reasons for me to get active with Shuya and Zack, get Shuya to roll some balls from Hircine as Zack tries to push Kyukaku in wreaking havoc in Paragon. I think we started the Paragon school too soon, we weren't ready for it, and it caused a huge drop in activity. But if we can take this moment as a wake up call and with everyone remember how good the days were where we just had fun and exciting rp threads with one another out of the blue, I think we can find ourselves some motivation to post again as well.
Now, I cannot read minds and I can't say that promises of activity by some in the past have resulted in actual activity, so I can't really make up my mind for a vote. I'd have to go with the 2nd or 3rd, unless anyone had a really brilliant optional choice. As for reboot, I honestly would just leave. I know some might think that's weak, others will not even care, but still, I've been through a lot over here, put a lot of feeling in my characters... if that is gone, so would be the link between me and the board.
Now enough emo stuff, let's see where all of this leads us.
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Post by Zack Richardson on Dec 2, 2008 20:03:17 GMT 1
I haven't really got a whole lot to say about this right now. But i think that out of the options given, making a new school and moving everyone to there would be the best bet. Nobody wants to give up all the work that they have put into this board (I know I haven't done a very high amount, but I don't want to lose what I have done.) And if we stay how we are then I think everything is going to crash and burn soon.
Well thats all I can say on this really. I know it doesn't make alot of sense, but anyway I voted for new school.
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Post by Valencia Donahue on Dec 2, 2008 20:42:03 GMT 1
Now, let me throw more thoughts out here after talking this over last night.
Time-Skip (4 Years-ish Idea) Same difference as starting over, in a sense. Inactive characters ARE/HAVE BEEN inactive characters for long stretches of time now. Just because the inactive characters haven't been active for the past year they need MORE years of inactivity to make a point? And have the rest of the board do the same to "even things out"? Oh that's fair alright, suuuuuurrreee... The present doesn't exist at all. Just past and future.
New School Ever owned fish before? In fact, ever learned that you need healthy bacteria for a system (ecosystem for fish, organs and stuff for humans) to survive? If anything is too clean, it won't live. It's like that on this board. When Hircine began, there had to be new characters to oppose the Varron transfers. The member base was all in one place and the only way to go was to grow. Paragon divided what little member base we had at the time, so its "germ culture" was dependent on alt accounts and new members thrown in in hopes of growing. Hircine students force transferred there found their way back to their own school and are having an easier time surviving.
A new school means a new environment and while we're chucking all the fish into a new place, that school will need a new culture as well. More dependence on alts and new characters. While there's a possibility of working, there's still a dependency on shaky factors and too much false hope. I'd like to see guaranteed results.
Tournament How successfully have tournaments been incorporated into storylines? At best, they only affect the participants--The people who actually want to fight and do. The rest of the populace doesn't even know what's going on in those fights, let alone if they exist and are canon.
(On other XIN boards, there're at least IC sign-ups when applicable.)
Participation is key. Lock up both schools (or prevent new threads from being made) and force all the students into a battle royale in the middle instead of leaving it to the fittest. It's mean, but it'll leave a much more lasting impression.
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Nobu
Newcomer
MISSING IN ACTION
Bushidō
Posts: 61
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Post by Nobu on Dec 2, 2008 21:18:34 GMT 1
I'll keep this short and sweet.
A total reboot would be bullocks--I mean, who wants to null years of hard work and good memories? Though I haven't been on the board for even close to as long as most other people, I'd just have to say I'd be rather irked, if not full-out pissed if a decision like that was made. I believe you should leave everything intact, and I'm going to suggest something that Val put forth.
-- Year Time Skip: This would cause any character with a significant history in the school to graduate if they already haven't, which is almost like starting off from a clean slate. If the time skip is long enough, we might even be able to see some of the veterans' characters become old geezers! What have they been up to in the past several years? Have they thrown away their violent past and settled down, got a white-collar job, married, and made babies?
Also, characters that haven't made enough of an impact to be remembered in history, i.e. the newer members (like myself) could always just re-post their bios as if they were never in Hircine or Paragon prior to the time skip.
This, to me, sounds like one of the more fair ways of dealing with this issue, seeing as how a full reboot seems like overkill to me, and apparently, people aren't too happy with how things are at the moment.
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Post by Valencia Donahue on Dec 2, 2008 21:30:45 GMT 1
I'm anti-time-skip, by the way.
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Keith Richards
Dreamer
Sophomore
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure.
Posts: 146
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Post by Keith Richards on Dec 2, 2008 21:42:25 GMT 1
I finally came to a conclusion. I don't agree with a time skip because it's just as crippling to those currently active as a reboot. I think reboot is too drastic for both oldbies and the currently active.
So new school, new direction, was my vote. I'll just point at Valencia's post, and say that violently slamming the two schools together would be damn fun.
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Post by Aryck Venn on Dec 2, 2008 22:03:24 GMT 1
See, here's my dilemma. I guess I'm pretty biased, since I'm, without doubt, one of those inactive people you guys all seem to not give a shit about since I'm inactive, but...
It just seems to me like this "Active member base" we keep saying will be hurt is a drastic minority.
I was sitting here trying to figure out who's actually been active recently and consistently, and came up with Kyukaku and Valencia. That's about it. Keith, you JUST recently started showing up again, Pinefresh has been fairly active recently, but he's just as prone to long bouts of 'where th'fuck'd he go?'-ism as anyone else is. MJ's been really damn consistent too as of late, so I guess I shouldn't count her out, but... lets be honest... there's not a whole lot of people who would be 'slighted' if we just did a time-skip.
I guess this just shows why I shouldn't be RPing in the first place. I've never had that much of an attachment to any of my characters. I enjoy the stories that come out of the board as a whole, but I'm not so personally inclined that I feel like I need to have MY character sitting in MY hands to keep a sense of solidarity.
So come what may, come what may.... I really have no idea anymore.
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Post by Valencia Donahue on Dec 2, 2008 23:41:03 GMT 1
In a perfect world, we'd kill old people to erase the humongous debt they chucked on the US. Unfortunately, things aren't that easy.
The point I'm getting at isn't for the active people to get all the chips, but for more people to be active period instead of trying more half-assed plans just to pique the interest of the inactive folks. Lots of stuff was tried before, even without the need to expend active RPers, but there was no follow-through. Talk is cheap. I want action. No maybe's, no it-sounds-interesting's--Just "I WILL RP".
What I don't like is how it seems like "it's perfectly fine to screw over the active people because they're not the majority". As per the rules of the forum, RPing is supposed to be fun. How can RPing be fun when people aren't RPing or interested in it? Why spoil it for the folks who are doing something about having fun? Do we have to screw over people who care just so the people who don't care "will"? No compromise?
That's why I'm posting. This board can only be active for so long with the same people going in and out of activity instead of opening the doors to more people... And interested people at that. It's bad enough that throughout this board's history, the plots were limited to the same people instead of including new members.
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Kyousuke
Dreamer
Senior
Tell me when, and why, you give or take Karma from me. Otherwise it is meaningless.
Posts: 271
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Post by Kyousuke on Dec 2, 2008 23:48:15 GMT 1
In a perfect world, we'd kill old people to erase the humongous debt they chucked on the US. Unfortunately, things aren't that easy. The point I'm getting at isn't for the active people to get all the chips, but for more people to be active period instead of trying more half-assed plans just to pique the interest of the inactive folks. Lots of stuff was tried before, even without the need to expend active RPers, but there was no follow-through. Talk is cheap. I want action. No maybe's, no it-sounds-interesting's--Just "I WILL RP". What I don't like is how it seems like "it's perfectly fine to screw over the active people because they're not the majority". As per the rules of the forum, RPing is supposed to be fun. How can RPing be fun when people aren't RPing or interested in it? Why spoil it for the folks who are doing something about having fun? Do we have to screw over people who care just so the people who don't care "will"? No compromise? That's why I'm posting. This board can only be active for so long with the same people going in and out of activity instead of opening the doors to more people... And interested people at that. It's bad enough that throughout this board's history, the plots were limited to the same people instead of including new members.
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Post by Leon Loire on Dec 3, 2008 0:22:39 GMT 1
These are some damn good responses, if I may say. My confidence in the board is booming right now.
Valencia, besides your... emotional tone, which can be understood to an extent, I think you've got the best argument of all for the sake of avoiding the reboot. Having MJ, Sjoerdje, Manuel, Adam, Liam and others argue against it as well helped convince me even more so that having the reboot was probably not as viable a solution as I first thought.
You have to understand though, that I did choose that option being an "inactive roleplayer trying to come back," but you have to see that the reason I wanted something so radical and that would "punish" you as one of the sole remaining active RPers is because I, and a bunch of others, left for a very simple reason: it wasn't fun anymore, and I wanted to try and make it entertaining for the majority again. That was why I put that idea forward.
But of course, as I said, I knew there would be disagreements, and I knew this was far too big for even the staff to call without discussion, so I brought it forward. And thanks to this discussion, I've decided that a reboot can't be done.
Could make a good side board though, to "remake" Varron Academy, but I'd need to discuss that with you, MJ, if I ever actually got serious about that.
So I apologize to those who voted for the reboot, but I think the reboot is now out the question, considering we all know that it'd alienate too many people. That then leaves us with the other three options to consider. The first one I'm gonna respond to is Ryan's "Time Jump" idea. Not a bad one, and it certainly works - 552 did so after their nuking (though they didn't have "552: Fallout Edition" Ryan, even though that made me laugh out loud, honestly) but I agree with the others in that it wouldn't be very different from a reboot. It'd force veterans to change their histories, and they'd lose the opportunity to roleplay as high schoolers. Worse, it creates those terrible time loops; 552 has plenty of those now. So I think a time skip is out of the question as well.
As for changing to a different school and conservation.... well, I can't refute those yet, because a plot idea that hit me last night in the middle of the night (while I was stressing over finals too) gave me something to think about. But I'm going to discuss it with Tyler before I bring the basics ahead to this discussion. Understand though, that it won't be a "setting" immediately; it'll take some Stern Mason-esque manipulation to reach the next setting. But I hope it'll be good, I really do.
Keep up your discussions, though, and continue to vote how you feel. Just because my opinion has changed does not mean yours has to adapt to it. I'll let you know about the idea of mine if Tyler gives it the green light.
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Post by Pain Killer on Dec 3, 2008 1:14:22 GMT 1
In a perfect world, we'd kill old people to erase the humongous debt they chucked on the US. Unfortunately, things aren't that easy. The point I'm getting at isn't for the active people to get all the chips, but for more people to be active period instead of trying more half-assed plans just to pique the interest of the inactive folks. Lots of stuff was tried before, even without the need to expend active RPers, but there was no follow-through. Talk is cheap. I want action. No maybe's, no it-sounds-interesting's--Just "I WILL RP". What I don't like is how it seems like "it's perfectly fine to screw over the active people because they're not the majority". As per the rules of the forum, RPing is supposed to be fun. How can RPing be fun when people aren't RPing or interested in it? Why spoil it for the folks who are doing something about having fun? Do we have to screw over people who care just so the people who don't care "will"? No compromise? That's why I'm posting. This board can only be active for so long with the same people going in and out of activity instead of opening the doors to more people... And interested people at that. It's bad enough that throughout this board's history, the plots were limited to the same people instead of including new members. No. Perfection is subjective. I like my grandparents, thanks. I'm sure there's Americans who feel the same way. The reason for those plans is the fact that this board got boring. Sure, it happens, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything bad about this board in particular. There's just so long you can do something without changing it up before it stops being fun and just becomes work. Just with this small break I've taken already, I've come up with a few ideas as to what to do with my characters, but that would require rping with some of the people I know already, which I'll mention in a minute. However, my point is, I can't just say "I WILL RP" because there's no guarantee. If current events don't interest me, then I'll turn my attention elsewhere. If I'm too busy to really get a chance to, then I won't. If I have to force myself to post so that it's no longer fun, then I won't. No, it's not fine to screw over the minority, I agree with you here. That's why it's a discussion, not "we're going with the first suggestion that a few people agree with." I personally would be fine with the time skip thing on my end, but as I can see it would be a major problem with other people, I don't support it. Yes, there's certain cliques that form on this board, just like any other. It's bound to happen. I mean, if I'm making a storyline, then realistically, who will my character go to for help/advice/any interaction whatsoever? People he's met before. I'm more than happy to roleplay with anyone, but if I'm making a storyline that is important development for my own characters, I'd prefer to include someone who I KNOW will make some sort of commitment to see it through (Obviously, there's exceptions, like real life stuff coming up and whatnot), not just Joe Shmoe who joined a week ago and got sick of the board already. And to be honest, if I'm looking for a fight thread, I'll naturally gravitate towads people who I've noticed are around my level. It's no fun to obliterate someone or get obliterated. If that comes off as snobbish, then whatever. I'm tired of this elitist shit, it's getting ridiculous.
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Post by pinefresh on Dec 3, 2008 3:45:55 GMT 1
I'm tired of this elitist shit, it's getting ridiculous. That is all that is needed to be said. It is the main reason we have this problem and why we will continue to have this problem. It is also why I left Hircine in the first place. My vote is for a new school. Not because I want to keep my precious Pine the way he is, but because it is the best option. Though I doubt most of you have bothered to look at my Bio, if you did, you would see Pine is a revamped character. He is younger and with a less colourful history, but he is still Pine. You don't want to change your characters but instead you are willing to let them die by leaving? Where is the logic in that? What it seems is that most of you have missed the fact this is an rp community. We do what is best for the community not what is best for out individual selves. Your threats of not coming back if things change mean nothing. So what if we lose a ghost or two or a few active members. This board will live or die with or without you that is the fact. You can do one of two things, you can suck it up and support the board or leave. The choice is ultimately yours and yours alone. If you are too elitist to look past your own wants to see what is good for the board then it was nice having you. A new school would mean you could possibly keep your characters as is. With everyone in one school the new members will be able to more easily interact with the active members that give a shit. We could easily boost activity while keeping as much as possible the same. Therefore the most logical option.
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Post by Valencia Donahue on Dec 3, 2008 4:20:47 GMT 1
Glad to see that we both agree that killing old people ain't as simple as it sounds to solve problems. Ain't that the beauty of analogies?
What I meant by "I WILL RP" is the guarantee. It's not a matter of making people RP. It's making them want to RP. As mentioned plenty of times before... Not just pique interest, but actually inspire action.
Why aren't new people sticking around? Who are they RPing with? Likely with people who aren't sticking around either... Instead of folks who actually do. Who are the incumbent RPers RPing with? Likely with the same people, with nothing new to change things up. Sure, there may be new characters, but it's the same ol' world. Cliques are inevitable, but they don't have to be rigid.
This varies from person to person according to storyline, but I got ditched more by vets who lost interest than new people. If I put all my eggs in one basket, I would've had a useless character by now. That's why I RP with lots of people with 90+% of my threads being storyline. If they don't commit, it's fine. I'll know the ones that will and won't have to wait for weeks 'til someone replies to their open thread. It's a two-way street when it comes to RPB's. Everyone is trying to move their storylines forward, not just the established folks with the VIP tag. Everyone needs to get out of their own box every once in a while.
(Beat the crap out of people weaker than you. You'll create fighters. It happened to me on 552, it happened to Kyukaku here.)
They say people don't evacuate 'til the floodwaters touch their toes. I don't know who is calling who elitist, but I figured it was about time to show what it really means to take initiative, especially when asked, instead of waiting 'til someone else has a good idea.
[EDIT]: Posted while Pine was posting.
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Post by Pain Killer on Dec 3, 2008 6:17:03 GMT 1
Pine: That quote means the complete opposite of what you're using it for. I was referring to the fact that this pointing the finger and calling people elitist attitude has to stop. I've never seen this community think it was better than another one in the entire time I've been here. And even if it has happened before, so what? That was years ago. Get the fuck over it. Pretty much everyone here has always been willing to roleplay with anyone. Back in my own new days, Liam, Ryan, James, Emil, Bruce, Mel.... the list goes on and on as to people who joined my threads and had me join theirs. If the board's reset, the character's gone anyway. You can't kill something that doesn't exist. People don't want to see all the hard work they've put in over the years in character development to just disappear. That's the logic. Yes, it's a community. Not just of characters, but of the people behind it too. If so many people are willing to leave over a decision, then it's pretty obvious that the decision isn't in the best interest of the community. Valencia: 'Tis indeed. Though, the first part of that line was the more important part. ...Hence the plans? And implementation of said plans? There's only so much that can be done about that. Revelation's storyline was made to accept as many new-er people as possible (as well as end the Watcher idea), as long as they chose to participate in some way (keyword: chose). But honestly, I don't have the time or the patience to hold everyone's hand and post to every one of them. That can depend on the person, I suppose. But I don't ever speak as a VIP, just as a rp'er. I know everyone has their own storylines, but as I couldn't ever pretend to know how someone else feels, I only speak of personal experience. But what I meant was, as I try to write on a fairly realistic level, my characters tend to head towards people they've met when it comes to the situations I mentioned before. That's not to say I won't roleplay with other people, as doing so extends that box further, but for example, when the NPC Mya got kidnapped, PK wasn't going to just ask random people to help him. Instead, he went out to people he knew, like Stern. Screw Kyukaku. Aside from that, I do reply to threads I'm invited to, and I usually fight through them if it turns into that. But I'm not going to rain on some guys parade if he just joined and is looking to learn how to fight. I'm not a good teacher. I was referring to the whole "XIN1 is elitist" crap that I've heard so much about. I may have misunderstood, but your last lines seemed to tie in with that.
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Post by Valencia Donahue on Dec 3, 2008 7:49:40 GMT 1
I guess we both misunderstood each other.
I was referring to the clique thing in general, since the elitism stigma is brought up all the time out of self-consciousness rather than reputation. No offense to anyone, but I don't think the stat boards give a darn about this board's issues anymore.
Upon your response with the elitist comment, I assumed it was along the lines of "Git of yer soapbox, whippersnapper" because of the initial response to Dain (which I perceived as a stab in my direction). The active versus inactive thing was the deal I felt.
Hopefully this cleared things up? I did mention that getting things going should be everyone's effort, not just a select few.
=P In terms of turning people into fighters, I mean lay waste to them, physically or otherwise, and see if a plot unfolds. Training threads are for folks with time. Direct experience is a better teacher than I can ever be. In a recent example, all I had to do is have Pine and Bix hate me for no good reason. Potential PLOT! All I have to do is find a excuse reason to knock out Bix's teeth and we'll have conflict!
Besides, there's a reason why the bios require a fighting style of some kind. There should be tail trouncing. Everyone's too afraid to mess things up. Gawd, a PM saying "DON'T DO THAT AND THIS IS WHY" and a deleted/edited post will remedy the situation. Is it really that bad to MAYBE make a mistake? Isn't there another rule on the forum along the lines of just going with the flow to have fun?
::keeps thinking how a battle royale would work to determine action and a victor instead of constant kill-injure-"Are you okay?"-help-survival-repeat::
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Post by Kyukaku on Dec 3, 2008 7:55:49 GMT 1
Blasphemy!
While nothing is completely solid yet, John, Adam and myself have something that should start making way this weekend or so. I've done my best to listen to every point brought up and take it into consideration, and I believe it'll be the best compromise there is. I'm sure John'll pop back in sometime and provide more details.
Though, if it's not obvious at this point, there will be NO Reboot.
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Post by Leon Loire on Dec 3, 2008 17:40:23 GMT 1
Since I'm in a rush, I'll keep this brief, and since I can't give away everything, I'll keep it to the short term.
The plan's simple: forget the reboot, and consider something of a mix between conservation and school change, but this option is so different from that, yet so mild and "us" that I can't see why anyone would refute it.
There will be two new school staff characters posted up in due time, one referred to as "The Director," and another that acts as his deputy, Mitchell Weiss. The former is the head of San Francisco's School Council, a sort of organization that acts as the supreme junction between individual schools and the government. And whether you knew it or not, the Director and his posse were the reason behind Paragon's creation and the first place.
And they weren't giving away hand outs.
By next week, the two characters will be posting separate "speeches" to each of the schools, Weiss giving a public one to the Hircinians, and the Director handling Paragon personally. They are giving a simple message, and one that will help bring about the very motive we've wanted for a long, long time out of this plot, but never brought it about ourselves.
The Director and his deputy will be telling the schools that the Council cannot afford to pay for both schools to continue existence, considering both are state-of-the-art, both are high profile, and both are only running at half capacity. Thus, the Council has decreed that one of the schools has to be shut down, and soon - without a month or a few weeks more. But here's the catch: the Director is letting the students and staff of each school decide which school lives, and which school dies. And the Council doesn't care which it is or how it happens, so long as one school is left as the clear candidate for survival by the year's end.
You can tell where this is going. War.
And before you think this is the final setting, it's not; Tyler and I will, if we follow this plot, take a firm hand in making sure things progress. I'll be playing a bit of the part of Stern Mason here, making sure that certain parties have the irrevocable power to accomplish the necessary goals. That way, instead of working towards the war, it's here, and it's on our doorsteps. Further, we'll be making sure this plot continues for a while longer into a new setting, before finally settling down and letting everyone have a free shot at normalcy.
Let us know what your thoughts are, but I'll let you know that we're pretty determined about this plot ourselves, so if you've got problems with it, speak up now, or forever hold your peace. This arc is most likely going to happen, considering we feel it satisfies everybody to an extent.
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Post by pinefresh on Dec 3, 2008 18:54:24 GMT 1
So you want us to decide which school closes based on a battle. Is this going to be a Battle Royale or a structured tournament? Whose going to sit this one out and monitor it?
Stern Mason...You mean King's Stern Mason don't you? Leader of the nameless mass which I assume will exist in NPC form to wreak havoc amongst the student populations. Come now John, what is the point of this? I think that is one character that is best played by his original owner. I say you just bring back Loire with a shit load of watchmen if that is the road you choose to take.
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Post by Pain Killer on Dec 3, 2008 19:47:56 GMT 1
So you want us to decide which school closes based on a battle. Is this going to be a Battle Royale or a structured tournament? Whose going to sit this one out and monitor it? Stern Mason...You mean King's Stern Mason don't you? Leader of the nameless mass which I assume will exist in NPC form to wreak havoc amongst the student populations. Come now John, what is the point of this? I think that is one character that is best played by his original owner. I say you just bring back Loire with a shit load of watchmen if that is the road you choose to take. Indirectly. It's more or less going to be a battle royale, no rules, no tournament, nothing like that. Just beat the crap out of other people. He wasn't being literal in bring back Stern Mason the character, but rather, he will take a role similiar to what Stern had done, manipulating behind the scenes and such.
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