Immortality Through Science (Debate)

[Zeniro]

shamino said:

Thoughts, memories, personality characteristics. This is what makes a person. The body is an object- a very important one, but an object nonetheless. Its a tool- and tools can be changed, added, taken away from, and yes- duplicated. A body is a body- but if science could transfer the mind- then it can transfer you.

Shoots and scores.

My thoughts in a nutshell.

[Auroth]

shamino said:

I've watched Ghost In The Shell. Hell yeah its you.

Amen Shammy

[Li]

The thing that bothers me is that there's 2 of me at one point. There's the knowledge that lingers that there was another me I was aware of that still alive.
Personally, I believe in reincarnation where we're reborn as something else, but I always felt that my mind/soul was duplicated once I died.

Since I didn't technically die (body wise), I feel that at that point it still isn't me. if they somehow timed it where they'd transfer when I died. I may feel as if I hadn't died at all and that this was an extension of my life or a reincarnation with my previous life fully aware. It would do my mind better however that I knew that I died before I know and confirm that there is only one. THEN at that point would I consider the new body to be truly me.

[Jason Cross]

I think it general if it was a well performed practice a majority of people would become accepting. All of medicine, the sickness industry as well as the wellness endustry rise on the idea of prologing the length of life. It is a strange way to do so, but isn't that what the idea would be. Your mind, is what holds all of your experiences and personality traits, so if it was successful I guess to me it'd seem like it was still you. Though I don't think we'll see that happening any time soon, the brain is so complex that scientists have tried for decades to make a functioning electronic brain, spent massive amounts of money. Yet they are still basiclly no closer to the goal.

[jellar]

I agree with Leon.

Though, have you ever considered the thought that the conscious lies within the brain?

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

zerreth said:

THEN at that point would I consider the new body to be truly me.

Your body isn't what makes you- physical characteristics can add to defining you but those can be changed, from, plastic surgery to a simple hair cut. Your body is NOT what makes you, that is your mistake.

[Li]

The body that carries my DNA, my skeletal structure-both the good and the bad, the memories that go with that particular body. That is all me. It's not just the mind.

[traytaine]

Well, it's been a while, so lets see what I can add to this.

Why hasn't anyone considered the idea of the soul? I will probably be laughed out of this thread because of that question, neh, oh well. Scientists may be able to transfer or remake every single detail about me. Including or not including no time lapse between bodies, but they can't recreate the soul, or transfer it. Which would mean the copy, yes I'm calling it a copy, isn't me. In fact, it's a soulless pile of flesh that just happens to be a near perfect copy of me.

And this being the case you would fall into the debate of 'do they hold the same rights as a fully organic human?' which is a pointless argument to bring up, but none the less it would be there.

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

zerreth said:

The body that carries my DNA, my skeletal structure-both the good and the bad, the memories that go with that particular body. That is all me. It's not just the mind.

DNA can be replicated- I suppose that would be done in the process of recreating your body. Your skeletal structure? The FIRST POST said its EXACTLY like your body. DNA, Skeletal structure and all.

[Li]

exactly. What I'm saying is that physical characteristics are just as important to one's self as the mind/soul is. While the mind would be transferred, the memory of that transfer would linger. The knowledge that the "first" body.

The body is DEFINITELY what makes you you in addition to the mind, which is why Maverik would probably add detail to the duplication thing. In all honesty, I'm not really sure what you're saying in response to my post...

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

So when you are transfered, you is you. It comes down to morality after that. YES, the new body with your mind/thoughts/personalities/fears/hopes is you. But are you willing to make the leap? Its a personal choice, at that stage.

Fuck, i'd do it.

[Nathan Branigan]

traytaine said:

Well, it's been a while, so lets see what I can add to this.

Why hasn't anyone considered the idea of the soul? I will probably be laughed out of this thread because of that question, neh, oh well. Scientists may be able to transfer or remake every single detail about me. Including or not including no time lapse between bodies, but they can't recreate the soul, or transfer it. Which would mean the copy, yes I'm calling it a copy, isn't me. In fact, it's a soulless pile of flesh that just happens to be a near perfect copy of me.

And this being the case you would fall into the debate of 'do they hold the same rights as a fully organic human?' which is a pointless argument to bring up, but none the less it would be there.

Yes, people have considered the soul. This includes me, Leon, and Charlotte. Shamino and most of the others too.

Zerreth, DNA is in all tissues. If the brain is transferred thatn that whole issue is not a problem. Shamino has this correct. However, I can't remember if he has the actual brain in his one, or a computer brain with your memories and behaviors.

EDIT: On the main topic, I'm not going to lie. If they had this then I would use it to its full extent as long as my real brain is transferred. Otherwise I don't think it would be me for reasons previously explained.

[Kit Lee]

I believe the main problem is that we do not know at our current time how it is that the brain exactly operates.

1) For my argument these are my assumptions:
-Your thoughts, experiences, random chance, and environment make who you are.
-Your decisions and rational of why you make such decisions be they logical or not make you who you are.
-Everything in your body is not unique, exception of the brain.
2) We do not know what it is that allows us to make decisions that we do.
3) We do not know what it is that makes us think the way we do.

In essence, I believe that if all 3 points I have just discussed were known, and we somehow were able to make the decision making and thought process EXACTLY 100% synchronized, then I would say, yes that person that is waking up is you. Think about losing an arm. You lose control of it because it isn't wired to your brain. However, if this new thing has 100% synchronization with whatever the magic thing in your brain is that makes you judge, make decisions, and think, then it is definately you.

tldr; The wiring of thought process, decision making, judgement, etc has to be exact in this generated being, in addition to experiences, memories, etc.

As for whether or not I would do such a thing, I don't believe in any sort of continuation after life so I say if I'm going to die, might as well try this process. Wouldn't matter if it failed because I'm dead anyway.

[Tong Xian Tian]

I dunno. I see where everyone is getting at and all, but I'm not sure I would know it was me unless someone did it first and confirmed that they are still the same person as before. Then maybe yes, I could believe it and MAYBE try that out if I was dying.

[zeke]

I think it would be a new person.

and i would rather die.

Because the process described in the first post would do nothing unless the actual brain was put in that body.

So why would i rather die?

because if i'm dead, i'm dead.

if they do this process, i'm dead, and there's somebody walking around who everybody thinks is me.

not a pleasant thought.

like something out of some sci-fi movie.

[Shamino Warhen Ph.D]

He said moving the entire contents of your brain. I'd assume its the brain, if its the entire contents...

[zeke]

all contents, but is it the actual brain? or just a data copy?